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2539 to 2551 Interrogation
of Kate Marie Healy
2007.09.06 with pictures
of 5 A, Tapas table and
layout of 5A
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10-PROCESSO
10 VOLUME Xa (Pages 2539 to 2551) |
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Kate Marie
Healy's
statement 06/09/07 @ 3.00pm |
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TRANSLATIONS BY CARMERINA32 |
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10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2539-41 |
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10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2540-42 |
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10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2541-43 |
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10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2542-44 |
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10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2543-45 |
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10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2544-46 |
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10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2545-47 |
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10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2546-48 |
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10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2547-49 |
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10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2548-50 |
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10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2549-51 |
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10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2550-52 |
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10VOLUME_Xa_Page_2551-53 |
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KATE MARIE HEALY ' STATEMENT
(from DVD)
September 6/2007 3pm at Portimao
Of British nationality, cannot speak
or write Portuguese, therefore an
interpreter is present taken from a
list provided by the Consulate,
ADSR.
Also present Carlos Pinto de Abreu,
attorney.
KMH confirms all of what was stated
before the Policy on May 4, 2007,
the day following the events under
investigation.
When asked about May 1, 2007
(holiday), she says that on that day
they left the apartment around
8:30PM, the same time that was
repeated every night. This time was
marked at the restaurant as the
beginning of dinner, except
Saturday, arrival day, when they had
dinner at the Millenium. On this
day, May 1, the children were
asleep, as she put them to bed
around 7:15/7:30 and was sure they
were sleeping.
They arrived at the Tapas around
8:31, taking the direct route, i.e.
left by the veranda door, went down
to the road and entered the
secondary reception of the complex.
As they left by the veranda door,
this door remained closed but not
locked, as this is only possible
from the inside. The curtains were
closed.
When they arrived at the Tapas, she
thinks that nobody from the group
was there, but is not sure.
During dinner, every half hour they
went to the apartment to check on
the children. This was done by KM
and Gerry. Does not remember if on
this night any of their friends went
to the apartment. States that
Russell was not present during
dinner, so his wife Jane, or
somebody took him dinner to the
flat. The reason for his absence was
that their youngest daughter was
sick.
Finished dinner around 11 PM, and
together with Gerry, left for the
apartment.
She thinks they went to the flat
four times: Gerry twice and she
twice. Approx. 9, 9:30, 10, and
10:30PM.
When asked about the fact her
daughter had been crying on the
night of the Tuesday for one hour
and 15 minutes, between 10:30 and
11:45, she says it is not true. She
says that on that night, after
midnight, Madeleine went to their
room and said that her sister Amelie
was crying, and sleep with her and
Gerry in their room. She says that
before Madeleine appeared in their
room, she had already heard Amelie
crying, however she did not go to
the room, as Madeleine went to the
room almost at the same time she
head the crying. She does not
remember if afterwards she or Gerry
went to the childrens' room, however
she states that Amelie cried for a
short time.
She says that on that night the
twins slept in the room where
Madeleine slept, each in their own
crib.
Regarding the layout of the
apartment, she says that on the
first day the moved the furniture:
they moved the two cribs out of
their room and put them in another,
where the children were to sleep;
they separated the two twin beds in
this room. They also joined the two
single beds that were in their room.
She presumes that the cribs, when in
their room, remained at the foot of
the beds.
She also says that when she arrived
there weren't two but three cribs in
the same place, one was lent to the
Payne family.
When shown a diagram of the room
(attached), she said the cribs were
located at point A, chair B at point
C, and the cribs in Madeleine's room
were placed horizontally.
Regarding cleaning, this was
provided by the complex on Mondays
and Wednesdays. This was never
modified, and it is not true that a
crib was in her room or in a room
other than Madeleine's.
She also says that after the day
they arrived, April 28, this was the
layout of the furniture and this was
not altered during the forthcoming
days.
When asked if she ever slept in
Madeleine's room, she says that this
happened on the Wednesday, because
she was annoyed with Gerry. He
ignored her after dinner when they
went to the Tapas bar, which only
happened that day. She decided to
retaliate by sleeping in the other
room, in the bed next to the window.
She doesn't know if Gerry realized
this because he was sleeping when
she left, and if in fact her husband
was aware of this, he made no
comment.
Regarding this night she says that
none of the children cried, she
would have noticed as she was in the
room. Regarding the fact that
Madeleine on the next morning,
Thursday, during breakfast said to
both of them that she had been
crying and that nobody had come to
her room, she presumes that this
crying must have been before she and
Gerry returned to the apartment.
When she asked Madeleine about this
however, the child gave no
importance to the matter. On this
night they also checked on the
children every half hour; however
she thinks that 45 minutes had gone
by from the time of the last check
to when they arrived, as
exceptionally they went to the Tapas
bar. On this day she thinks that
Gerry arrived at the apartment
around 23:50 and she arrived 5
minutes afterwards. She went to
sleep in Madeleine's room 15/20
minutes afterwards. Before this she
spent a few minutes in her bed next
to Gerry's.
From reading her previous statement,
mainly lines 34-40 it can be
understood that on the Wednesday
night she slept in the couple's
bedroom, but that did not happen
since she slept in Madeleine's room.
When asked if Madeleine slept in
their room, she says yes, as
mentioned, on the Tuesday night.
When asked about the schedule of her
children she says that in England
Madeleine slept in a room by herself
and the twins slept in another room.
At home the twins go to bed between
7 and 7.30 PM, Madeleine half an
hour later. During the holidays, the
three children went to bed at
7:30PM. She says that during the
holidays it is relatively easy to
put the three children to sleep when
they had not slept during the day
and were tired after the day's
activities. When on holiday the
twins and Madeleine went to sleep at
the same time. They never went out
to eat unless the three were
actually asleep. Normally when they
left the apartment the three
children had been asleep close to 1
hour. With the exception of what has
been described above, during the
holidays, she does not remember if
any of the children was awake during
the night. However, in England
Madeleine sometimes woke up during
the night, around 2 ' 2:30 AM and
went to her parents. During holidays
it was normal for the children to be
awake by 7:30/8:00, in England, at
home, they would normally wake
between 7 and 7:30 AM.
Regarding a British custom of having
a behaviour chart for the children,
she says that she has several notes
about Madeleine because with some
regularity she gets up during the
night. This situation was reported
from April 2006 up to her birthday
that same year, when she stopped
having this problem. These notes
correspond to the stars given on the
nights Madeleine did not get up and
go to her parents' room. When she
had 20 stars she got a present and
if she woke up at night and did not
stay in her bed, she did not get a
star.
During these holidays Madeleine
usually slept clutching a soft toy,
a pink cat, and sometimes wrapped in
a pink blanket. Sometimes she slept
on top of the bedcover and at other
times was covered with it. When
shown a photo of Madeleine's room
and bed, she recognizes the soft toy
and the blanket of the same colour.
The interview was stopped at 5PM for
a rest period, to be recommenced at
5:15 PM.
On May 3 they all woke between 7;30 and 8:00 AM; doesn't know
who woke first. They washed the children and had breakfast at
the apartment between 08:00 and 08:30 AM. Food bought by her and
Gerry at Baptista supermarket. Previously they'd had breakfast
at the Millenium, but as it was so far they'd decided to have
breakfast at the apartment. During breakfast the 'crying
episode', already described, took place. She noticed a stain,
supposedly of tea, on Madeleine's pyjama top, which she washed a
little later that same morning. She hung it to dry on a small
stand, and it was dry by the afternoon. Madeleine sometimes
drank tea; the stain did not appear during breakfast, maybe it
happened another day, as Madeleine did not have tea the previous
night and the stain was dry.
After breakfast they got dressed and left the apartment by the
main door. All children went walking. The veranda door was
closed and locked; she doesn't know whether the main door was
locked or unlocked.
After leaving the apartment they left the twins at the creche
next to the Tapas; at the same time she supposes that Gerry took
Madeleine to the creche next to the 24-hour reception area.
Once the children had been delivered, they went to the tennis
courts for a scheduled tennis lesson. Kate's group lesson was at
9:15, Gerry's an hour later. She doesn't know what Gerry did
during that free hour; she presumes he went to the apartment.
When her lesson ended at 10:15, she went to the recreation area
next to the swimming pool to talk to Russell until Gerry's
lesson was over. Afterwards, she is not sure, they went back
together to the apartment until close to 12:15 when she went to
Madeleine's creche to pick her up, together with Fiona Payne.
She signed the register and went to the twins' creche with the
intention of picking them up, she thought she would meet Gerry
there, not knowing if he already had the twins with him.
Together with the three children they went to the apartment for
lunch, with food bought at the supermarket. This would be around
12:35/12:40. They ate sandwiches, mainly she and Gerry, and the
children maybe ate pasta. Lunch lasted around 20 minutes. After
finishing lunch they stayed for a while at the apartment, then
they went to the recreation area next to the pool, as the
children were somewhat restless, maybe tired or bored. They
remained at this area an hour, maybe more, then they left the
twins at the creche next to the Tapas and both of them took
Madeleine to the other creche. They went via a path in front of
the small reception and then through gardens and stairs, taking
a short cut. This route was the one mentioned by Gerry.
After leaving Madeleine around 2:50 PM, they both had, this one
time, an individual tennis lesson just for the two of them, and
as the court was empty, they began hitting some b*lls until it
was time for their lesson.
She doesn't remember if they were wearing appropriate clothes or
if they went to the apartment to change.
The lesson ended an hour afterwards, close to 4:30PM. Gerry
continued playing tennis with a guest called Jxxxxn who belonged
to his tennis group, while she went for a jog along the beach,
for around half an hour. She saw the others of the group,
children and grownups; she was disappointed as nobody had told
her they were going to the beach and Madeleine would have loved
to have gone with them. She cannot confirm whether she went to
the apartment between the tennis game and the jog.
When she finished jogging, around 5:20/5:30PM she went to the
Tapas area. Gerry was there, as well as the twins and Madeleine
who were eating at separate tables. Madeleine had been taken to
the Tapas by the nannies. Her parents were required to sign the
register when the meal was over. During the meal Kate asked
Madeleine if she was sad because the other children in the group
had gone to the beach without her: she replied that she wasn't,
but was rather tired. She asked Kate to carry her back to the
apartment. Kate agreed, and Gerry led the twins back to the
apartment. Tiredness was due to the intense daily activities,
not to any sickness.
They arrived at the apartment around 5:40PM, earlier than usual,
because Madeleine was tired, their other friends were at the
beach and Gerry had an all-male tennis game at 6:00PM. At the
flat they both bathed the children, and close to 6:00PM Gerry
went to the tennis courts, soon after the children had finished
their bath. They entered the apartment by the main door, with
the key. She does not know if it was locked, and presumes it was
Gerry who opened it. At lunch time they also entered by the same
door.
After the children's bath, already alone, she put pyjamas and
nappies on the twins, gave them each a glass of milk and
biscuits. Before bathing the children and because it was early,
they had thought of taking them to the recreation area, but then
decided against this because of tiredness.
While the children were eating and looking at some books, Kate
had a shower which lasted around 5 minutes. After showering, at
around 6:30/6:40PM and while she was getting dry, she heard
somebody knocking at the veranda door. She wrapped herself in a
towel and went to see who it was. This door was closed but not
locked as Gerry had left by this door. She confirmed it was
David Payne, because he called out and had opened the door
slightly. David's visit was to help her to take the children to
the recreation area. When David returned from the beach he was
with Gerry at the tennis courts, and it was Gerry who asked him
to help Kate with taking the children to the recreation area,
which had been arranged but did not take place. David was at the
apartment for around 30 seconds, he didn't actually enter the
flat, he remained at the veranda door. According to her he then
left for the tennis courts where Gerry was. The time was around
6:30-6:40PM.
After David left, Kate dressed and sat with the children,
Madeleine on her lap. She was wearing a top, she doesn't
remember what colour it was, a green long-sleeved t-shirt, blue
denim pants. Trainers (tennis shoes) and white socks.
She read a story to the children in the living room, on the sofa
in front of the door to the veranda, identified on the diagram
with the letter D. At 7:00 PM Gerry arrived and entered via the
veranda door. He sat on the sofa identified with letter E.
Doesn't know if the story was finished, but thinks she was
sitting on the sofa.
She doesn't remember having changed the layout of the furniture
in the living room, the sofas, the table or others. She says
that the sofa (letter E) supposedly was against the side window,
because she doesn't remember anyone having gone behind it. She
does not know if this window was open or closed, she does not
remember it ever being open, or of it being watched.
After Gerry arrived the children went to wash their teeth and
she then read them another story, this time all four of them
sitting on Madeleine's bed. She thinks that Gerry entered the
room, but does not recall him sitting on the bed. During the
story Madeleine was lying on the pillow, alert and paying
attention to the story. After both twins kissed Madeleine, she
thinks that Gerry was in the room, and each (Kate and Gerry)
placed a twin in its crib at the same time, between Madeleine's
bed and the bed next to the window. They also kissed Madeleine,
who was lying down. She was under the covers, she thinks because
she was a bit cold. She normally clutched the soft toy and if
she wasn't holding it then it was next to her, on the left. She
remained lying down on her left side, with the soft toy and a
pink blanket, to cover her. The twins were laid down on their
backs, covered with open weave blankets. She says that she
doesn't know if the children were in the same positions when
they left the apartment.
It was around 7:15PM when they put the children to bed and
checked they were sleeping, she says she is sure of this.
As the children were asleep, she dried her hair and put on make
up. Gerry maybe had a shower and they sat on one of the sofas in
the living room, she doesn't know which. She had a glass of
wine, poured by Gerry, and he had wine or beer. The wine was
from New Zealand, white.
Gerry was wearing blue denim trousers and trainers (tennis
shoes). She doesn't remember what else he was wearing.
They talked while they drank. Around 8:30-8:35 they left for the
Tapas restaurant. Before leaving they checked on the children,
she doesn't know who; however Gerry says it was him. She only
knows the children were quiet. She doesn't know if they were in
their same positions. She says she is sure that they were
asleep, because Gerry told her all was quiet.
They left by the veranda door, which they left closed but not
locked. Main door was closed but not locked. She thinks it could
be opened from the inside but not from the outside. She thinks
she was wearing a cream coloured polar fleece with a zip, and on
top a blue raincoat also with a zip. As regards Gerry, she
doesn't know if he was wearing other items of clothing.
With respect to the objects she says they took with them: their
mobile phones. Gerry might have taken a wallet with money. Not
sure if they took a camera.
Regarding the apartment: windows were closed but she doesn't
know if they were locked. Veranda window closed but not locked,
curtains closed. The second window in the living room was
probably closed, she did not touch it and does not know if the
blinds were closed. The kitchen window was probably closed but
with the blinds open as there was light in the kitchen.
The window in Madeleine's room remained closed, but she doesn't
know if it was locked, blinds and curtains drawn. The window
remained like this since the first day, night and day. She never
opened it. If somebody saw the window blinds in Madeleine's room
open, it was not Kate who opened them, she never saw them open.
The window in Kate's room was closed and she admits they used
the blinds, because Gerry broke them and they were repaired on
the Monday; the incident occurred on Sunday.
Before they left she took some precautions: put the medicine
inside a bag with a clasp in her room inside the wardrobe or the
dresser. These were Calpol (paracetamol) and Nurofen
(Ibuprofen), for fevers and pains, both for adults and children
(liquid form for children). In this bag there was also a small
pair of scissors. In the kitchen were cutting elements used to
prepare the meals and which were not put out of sight. During
their trips it was normal for them to take these medicines.
During these holidays she never gave any medicine to her
children, nor did Gerry. She now says that Gerry took medicine
for acidity called Losec (omeprozole) which they also possessed.
The interview was stopped at around 8PM for a rest period and
food; it was recommenced at 10:00PM.
K says that on the 3rd they left the apartment leaving the
children sleeping. Knowing that Madeleine sometimes woke and got
up, she did not worry about leaving her alone, because when this
happened, and it wasn't always, it was around 2 ' 3 AM at which
time they would be back in the apartment.
They left the apartment between 8:30-8:35PM, and headed straight
for the Tapas where they arrived 1 minute later maximum. None of
the group were at the Tapas because they were usually the first
to arrive, but she isn't sure this was the case every night.
There was a couple there who they knew, S and C xxxx who
belonged to Gerry's tennis group. They talked with them for a
few moments before sitting down. Meanwhile, while they talked to
S and C the rest of their group arrived and sat down at a round
table, where they sat every day. Order of arrival: Kate and
Gerry, Jane alone, Mathew and Rachel, Russell, and then she
thinks David, Fiona and Diane. She makes a sketch of the table
and says that both she and Gerry were not facing the apartments.
Sketch attached.
Dinner began around 9PM, and she thinks the nine adults were at
the table. She ate steak and maybe sardines. Drank white wine
and water.
She doesn't know if anyone took photographs that night, however
she thinks that Rachel took photos on one of the nights. Fiona
also took some photos but she thinks it was probably another
night. She doesn't know whether Fiona had a camera with her that
night. She remembers hearing a comment that night about a camera
being forgotten, but she doesn't know who said this or who the
camera belonged to.
Gerry was the first one to check on the children, this was
decided on the spot, close to 9-9:05PM. He got up from the table
and entered the apartment through the veranda door. He came
back to the table after 10 minutes; he implied that the children
were asleep. He'd met a tennis friend by the name of Jez, with
whom he had a chat. During this check, she thinks that Gerry did
not check on the children of any other couple, because it was
usual just to check on their own children. The deponent never
checked on any other child, other
than her own.
At 9:30PM she got up to go and check on her children at the same
time as Mathew, who said he was going to check on his daughter
Grace in apartment 5B and could check on her children. She
hesitated, however he said not to worry he was going anyway.
After less than 10 minutes Mathew returned to the Tapas, saying
all was quiet. At that moment she did not ask him if he went
inside the apartment, however she assumed he had checked on her
children, entering by the veranda door which was closed but not
locked.
Aside from Matt, she does not remember if anyone else got up
from the table.
At 10PM she got up from the table, as it was her turn after
having been replaced by Matt. She entered the apartment by the
veranda door which was closed, but as already said, not locked.
At this moment, and because it was so late, 11 PM, the interview
was interrupted and will be continued tomorrow morning.
She says nothing further. Reads the statement, finds it OK and
signs it together with the Interpreter and Attorney. |
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