1683 to 1691 Transcriptions
of traced calls with
unidentified woman and S.
Malinka, Robert and
Michaela, Sally and Jen
Murat, and Robert and
various other familiars
TRANSLATED BY INES
6 Pages 1683 to1691
Processos Vol VI
Transcript of Telephone Interceptions
On 2nd June 2007, in the installations of the Portimao DIC, I,
Carlos Moura, Police Interpreter, proceeded to effect the
audition of the telephone registers relating to the code 1L769M,
translating them into Portuguese:
Session no. 56
Elements related to the transcript:
Information Related to the Session:
Code : 1L769M
Session number: 56
Caller no.: 351282697628
Destination no.: 917462308
Time of initiation of call: 15.05.2007 15:15:08
Final time: 15.05.2007 15.27.31
Conversation in English.
Jen: Hi Sally! Oh..is
Sal: Hi Jen! Can I speak to Robert
Jen: He is speaking on the phone at the moment.
Sal: Then tell him to hang up, because I have Phil here to talk
about the phone detecting thing.
Jen: Ah! She's got, she's got..
is heard in the background).
Jen: She needs you urgently.
( A voice
is heard in the background saying that he will ring back in a
couple of seconds).
Rob: Hello Sal!
Rob: I'm sorry (laughs) sorry. Ahm..you probably don't know me,
I'm the man (inaudible) on the television at the moment.
Phil: Hi Robert, yes...
Rob: How are you' Are you well'
Phil: yes, I'm fine, call me Phil, how are you'
Rob: Hi Phil!
Phil: I'm fine..at the moment I'm at Sally's house.
Phil: But all the family is here, thats why....
Phil: I'm a police officer from the UK.
Phil: Ahm..Sally told me about your mobile, ahm.
Rob: Signal, I have just, I have just been informed, they tell
me that the signal of my two mobiles can be followed.
Phil: (inaudible) also.
Rob: Pardon, what did you say'
Phil: They can do this (inaudible) respectively.
Rob: What, what does that mean' Sorry.
Phil: There is a thing called search analysis of a mobile.
Rob: Ok, can I write this down, sorry'
Phil: Yes, of course, yes.
Rob: Search analysis of a mobile.
Phil: Thats right, what this means in practice is that the
police could ask your telephone operator...
Phil: Whoever that is..
Phil: Ahm.. the complete history of where your mobile was, the
calls that were made, whether incoming or outgoing...
Phil: And..perhaps more importantly for you, they can even show
where you were or could, could obtain the signal from where your
phone was, this, this, I should tell you is not...
Rob: Where I was.
Phil: Certainly, yes, it does not show where you were.
Phil: It only shows where your phone was, but..
Rob: Ok, ahm...but maybe it helps.
Phil: Without doubt, yes.
Rob: And the simple fact that probably you have already heard
this a million times, I am completely innocent and simply I
have.. you know, I can't manage to prove that this happened, ahm,
and the simple fact is that I am trying to arrange ways of
proving where I was.
Rob: At the end of the day.
Rob: And this is a way of trying to do this, I did not know that
this was possible.
Rob: Ahm.. and thats why..you know, I was thinking if, if this
were done, at the end of the day, because eventually, I don't
know, I, I was here at home, but what reach does it have' What
are does it cover and what does it give'
Phil: Well, this really depends on , on the number of
satellites, where you were.
Phil: Normally as regards mobiles it can be anything between
three and seven satellites.
Rob: Three to seven..
Rob: Three to seven satellites.
Phil: And ahm.. this determines...if they were, if they
were..lets say, three could locate close to a hundred yards
(2.74m) or thereabouts.
Rob: So, about 100 yards.
Phil: Yes, a hundred yards or thereabouts, yes.
Rob: Or thereabouts, ok.
Phil: Ahm... and the more satellites, the more satellites there
Rob: The closer..
Phil: The closer, they could give a certain location.
Rob: Yes, OK that is absolutely...
Rob: Fantastic, but for example if I were to move, with these,
withese satellites, with these phones..
Rob: They would move with me'
Phil: Yes, yes.
Rob: Ah, great, great.
Rob: But you know, what happened was, I was here all night.
Rob: Thats why, if I were, ahm, if I were accused of something
then I would have had to have moved from here.
Rob: I would not be at the, the , the site, now I can't remember
if I made any calls from these mobiles.
Rob: I will phone my operator in any case:
Rob: And find out whether I made any calls that night with that
Phil: Well, they have the history of your calls, ahm..
Phil: About the, the..
Rob: Well they have of course, of course they have my phones at
this moment, thats why..
Rob: Yes, thats why they have my phones, my computers,
Rob: But at the end of the day I have nothing to hide, whatever
it might be.
Phil: Did you use your computer that night'
Rob: I think not, I'm not sure, I don't remember to be honest.
Phil: Because, again they can search the .. the history of the
computer, thats why..
Phil: If you had used your password.
Rob: Again, again, I gave them everything, thats why they have
Rob: I have nothing to hide, whatever it might be.
Rob: I didn't do anything. I'm being crucified.
Rob: The whole of my life is being crucified.
Rob: And...my family are all being crucified, ahm...but I must
say that the Leicester police have been absolutely fantastic
with my family, even, even helping them.
Rob: I even asked someone from the press to thank the Leicester
police for all the work they have done and looked out for family
Phil: Hmm, hmm..
Rob: And I hope they will do it, I cannot look out for myself
but I asked, asked them to look after this part, you know'
Phil: Yes, and it is better to leave this to them (inaudible).
Rob: They have been fantastic.
(inaudible) another perspective, another perspective.
Rob: If I manage to think of other perspectives that could..
Rob: Ahm... from the technological point of view, that could
place me or situate me, or anything else..
Rob: Please tell me because I am trying some things to see, to
prove what I was doing.
Rob: But, as I have already said, I am desperate really, aren't
I' You know, they are trying to paint me as a kind of malignant
armadillo, when I did absolutely nothing.
Rob: When I tried to help.
Rob: Ahm..it is..it is..I have to say That I am very frightened,
when they began, when they began to join things together and ahm...I
know that I didn't do anything.
Phil: Unfortunately the press, well, the impression I have is
that the press here...
Phil: They have to behave themselves reasonably well because of
the “sub justice” aspect.
Phil: But it is clear that with national (inaudible) it is not put into doubt, but the
(inaudible) because now there is an international press, Sky TV can be seen
all over the world..
Rob: Yes, thats true.
Phil: And these kind of things, that why I don't...I'm very..
I'm not familiar with the Portuguese work.
Phil: Ahm...from what I have seen up till now
Rob: Thats right, ok
Rob: Well, I wanted to say, I, I have been translating
(inaudible) during the last few days.
Rob: And the work they are doing there is absolutely, it even
goes into the details, its really good, they follow all leads,
of everything in every sense ahm.. and they, they are doing a
really good job, I must, I must say, unfortunately I am at the
wrong end of it at the moment.
Rob: Ahm, I have to be honest, honest about it even though I
Phil: Hm, hm.
Rob: Because they are focussing on me, ahm.. I have to be
honest, they are doing a very good job and you know they are
involved in this..
Rob: They work even, even in a very consolidated way, in this
Rob: Really I shouldn't be criticising the people who are trying
to crucify me.
Phil: Well, yes, there is one thing, from my point of view..
Rob: It doesn't seem very, very (inaudible)
Phil: Well, you know, these things happen and sometimes,
ahm..you could look at other statistics..
Phil: Normally they are people who are known to the family or
(inaudible) who are around and its clear that they want to
communicate these kind of things that happen (inaudible).
Rob: Yes, exactly, exactly..
Rob: The other thing that worries me a lot is that they, they
are leaving behind what is important, the little girl at the end
of it all. My life is important, don'' get me wrong (laughs).
Rob: My life is important, I don't want to be crucified and, and
crucified and being completely innocent.
Rob: Ahm..and I have been crucified, but they have, I hope they
remain concentrated on that which, that which is important and
that is finding the aggressors who have the girl.
Rob: I think that at the moment that only I, however ahm.. that
is what I, I want them to do.
Rob: That with, that they continue to concentrate on this
aspect. Ahm, ok, very, very much obliged for your help, I thank
you very, very much, I hope that we manage that this has some
result, in some way.
Phil: Yes, this is an alt, another alternative is that if you
were at home that night, see what you were doing, with relation
to what you were doing that night and who was with you and this
type of thing.
Rob: Yes, that is the other side of it, the truth is that I was
sitting here with my mother and ahm..I walked around the house
and sat down, sat down (inaudible).
Rob: And ahm..this is where the oldest people live basically.
Rob: There are always ambulances passing by.
Rob: And I was helping my mother do some little things, I think
she arrived home at about eight ahm.. and I was..I think that I
arrived first, I am sure, I think I am almost certain that I
arrived first. I cannot remember exactly, that is the problem, I
think I arrived first and joined her when she arrived and
ahmm..basically I was here all night talking and laughing and
that, we heard some sirens pass and I said on, that is just
Rob: That a girl has disappeared and that everything led on from
there is a hell, it s a hell.
Rob: But now I, I..what I am going to do now is to contact my
sister, she is prepared to give a statement to the Leicester
Rob: Ahm.. I'm going to ask her to ask whether they ca, whether
they have legal authority to do this mobile thing.
Phil: Ahm..an Emglish phone'
Rob: I have an English phone and another Portuguese phone, I
carry both of them with me.
Rob: Thats why I'm trying to find out the perspective of the
Phil: Yes, but they could do the same with your Portuguese
Rob: Right, but I don't know whether they have permission to do
this, thats the problem.
Rob: Or whether they can request this, or anything else, to see
if we can...
Phil: Normally not..in the UK you need an authorisation to do
this type of thing.
Phil: Ahm and (inaudible) nut this is clear (inaudible) without
Rob. Right, OK.
Phil: Ahm..but, but if you were to speak to Leicester police..
Phil: They would have a mechanism for doing this, now..
Rob: That, that is what I would like to try.
Phil: Yes, yes.
Rob: And..I want to say ahm..at the end of the day, I, I know
where I was, its simple.
Rob: And I was not in another place, if you want to know
Phil: Yes. I know..the same, the same applies to a fixed phone,
if you made a call from a fixed phone you could obtain, you
Rob: The signal..
Phil: Well, they don't detect the signal, they can obtain the
calls made and the calls received..
Phil: If you were at home and somebody called, then..
Rob: I think, I think..I can't remember at what time it was, but
I think I phoned my daughter, ahm..although I didn't speak to
her, I left a message on the answering machine.
Rob: Because I think they were not there.
Phil: But I do not remember exactly at what time that was.
Rob: Ahm..but I hope that it could have been at about that time.
Rob: However, I hope it was by phone, the phone in the house..
Rob: I hope that this places me in a completely different site,
at the site where I know I was.
Phil: Yes, yes.
Rob: But this is what I am going to try and do now.
Phil: Between, between these two things, between the two mobiles
and the fixed telephone and whether you were ending emails on
the computer or not...
Phil: All these things could..
Rob: The place.
Phil: They could detect the place where you were
Rob: another, another thing, we have a ..a router that was
installed by a private company, well the router, is a
(inaudible) router, yes'
Rob: Ahm.. its the type that says..I don't know what this means,
but it says that it is programmed for American time or something
like that, there is some specific reason, would that be a
Phil: Well, I could look into that, frankly I think not, but..
Rob: Good, when we talk about this, he says he finds it strange.
Rob: He was curious
Rob: But only about this. OK!
Phil: (inaudible) they, they are technicians, in any way they
will soon identify this, yes.
Rob: OK, sir, I thank you very, very much for your help.
Rob: Many, many thanks.
Phil: Thats OK, mate, be well.
Rob: Be wll.
Interpretation by Carlos Moura
There not being more to transcribe this file is signed.
1969 to 1974 Witness
Normal Allen 2007.07.11
TRANSLATION BY ALBYM
08-Process Volume VIII, Pages 1969 -
1974 (6 pages)
Process Volume VIII, Pages 1969 -
1974 (6 pages)
Witness statement of Philip Norman
Date of investigation: 2007/07/11
Time: 10:15 Location: DIC - Portim'
To the matter of the file he said:
--- Not knowing the Portuguese
language either spoken or written
form he was assisted in this act
[interview] by the official
interpreter of the Judicial
Police/ADT, Carla Romana Fidalgo
--- That he is a Detective Constable
in the English Police, stationed in
Thames Valley Police, but currently
is detached to the Department of
Criminal Investigation Support of
the English police.
--- That he has been coming to
Portugal for several years to spend
holidays, usually to the area of
Burgau - Luz - Lagos, having even
purchased an apartment about 3 years
ago in the area of Luz, which was
only completed during this year. He
states that the apartment in
question is located in Vila Baia -
Jardim da Luz - **************** -
Praia da Luz - Lagos.
--- He advances that he began coming
to Portugal for holidays in the
company of his family, namely with
his brother-in-law G***** T*****, he
being certain that on one of his
trips he stayed as a guest in the
residential boarding house called
"SALSALITO", whose owners are Ralph
and Sally Eveleigh. With the passage
of time and having stayed there
several times he ended up
establishing a relationship of
friendship with the couple.
--- He states further and recalls
that in mid-2005 he met their
nephew, Robert Murat, with whom he
has had several casual contacts,
always at the boarding house,
discussing the purchase of an
apartment. He does not think that he
had a relationship of friendship
with Robert Murat, he being certain
that the conversations he had with
him at the time were circumstantial.
--- That he came to Portugal on 10
May 2007, to spend a week's vacation
in the company of his family, having
the objective to occupy the
apartment he had acquired, however,
this did not happen for reasons
beyond his will, specifically
certain missing licenses allowing
the property to be occupied.
Accordingly, they had to take
another apartment and part of the
family ended up as guests in the
Salsalito boarding house, that being
the reason they had spent much time
in those facilities [at that place].
--- When he came to Portugal he was
already aware of the disappearance
of the child Madeline McCann, as the
matter was widely reported in the
--- Some relatives were put up in
the Salsalito boarding house, he
being certain that he stayed in an
apartment located in Praia da Luz,
although and as said above they
spent much time at the premises of
the boarding house.
--- Taking into account the
relationship of friendship he has
with the owners of the Salsalito
boarding house, Ralph and Sally
Eveleigh, during the weekend of
12/13 May 2007, from hearing several
conversations he perceived that
Robert Murat had become a suspect in
course of the investigation by
Portuguese police in connection with
the disappearance of Madeline
McCann, however he did not know any
concrete details about the
--- He confirms that on May 14, 2007
he was certain about the situation
of the suspect Robert Murat, given
that his family, Sally and Ralph
Eveleigh had a conversation with
him. The content of this
conversation was in essence that
Sally and Ralph were fully convinced
of the innocence of Robert Murat in
respect of the disappearance of
Madeline McCann. Effectively, the
friends wanted some clarification on
the legal and police procedures in
such situations, but due to lack of
evidence they had about the facts he
had limited himself only to making a
short comment on the way things were
done in England.
--- Robert Murat's situation was
much commented on
the Salsalito boarding house, he
recalling that there was a large
movement of family friends who went
to give support, but also a large
influx of phone calls, so this
subject was constantly being
addressed in many different ways,
but always on the side of the
innocence of the identified man.
--- That on 16 May 2007, when at the
Salsalito boarding house, he became
aware that Robert Murat had come to
the bar of the boarding house,
perhaps at 14H00/15H00, he being
certain that this occurred after he
had left the premises of the
Judicial Police, where he had been
questioned for some time. That his
friend, Sally, introduced him
again to her relative Robert
Murat, informing him [RM]
was a police officer in
--- That he had had some
conversations with Robert Murat,
which were always in the presence of
others, either because they found
themselves in the same location, or
because they spent time together,
but always on the premises of the
Salsalito boarding house. The
content of these discussions was
always the same, namely Robert Murat
expressed his innocence regarding
the disappearance of Madeline
McCann. Regarding his observations
of the behaviour of Robert Murat '
expression, manner, physical
gestures ' he did not note any
strange or suspicious behaviour or
at least he never "disarmed"
[dropped] his calm posture.
--- Robert Murat said that
approach to the case before us -
Madeline McCann ' he had only
intended to help find the child, due
to his command of English and
--- That the talks he had with
Robert Murat they never detailed any
particular fact, namely about the
McCanns, nor were any comments made
about the police investigation that
was taking place, because at that
time the deponent had no knowledge
of how it [the investigation] was
going. He reaffirms that the talks
relapsed into general issues, or on
the procedures that are usually
adopted in these situations, but
nothing concrete, detailing only two
situations that he realls, the first
related to a message left on Robert
Murat's cell phone, supposedly from
the Leicestershire Police, but was
surprised given that he did not know
the police author of the message,
leaving in doubt if it was true or
false, someone could be playing a
game with the situation. Accordingly
Robert Murat wanted to know how it
would be possible to find out if the
message in question was true or not,
and whether the deponent was able to
contact Leicestershire Police. After
contacting Detective Constable IVOR
it was determined that it was a
confirmation relating to the
testimony of a woman who allegedly
travelled on the plane with Robert
Murat when both moved to Portugal.
--- The second situation referred to
a contact that Robert Murat had had
with a female British citizen, who
informed that after the
disappearance of Madeline McCann had
thought that the behaviour of a
couple, with characteristics of
"Hippies" was strange, and who lived
in a villa close to the Praia da
Luz, which seemed very expensive in
terms of rental for those people.
The outcome of this matter and the
solicitation of Robert Murat
resulted in him [PA] talking by
phone with the lady referred to, who
was identified as C******** M*** and
was retired from the English Police,
explaining again her suspicions,
having advised her to address the
Leicestershire Police again, so that
the possible lead would not be lost.
--- That he returned to England on
18 May 2007, and is sure that up to
his return Mr. Robert Murat was
residing in Salsalito boarding
house, that being the reason that he
had more contact with him.
--- Confronted with the deposition
that he gave to the Leicestershire
Police on the matter at hand,
concerning the paragraph which
affirms that his position was
uncomfortable, he explains that it
had to do with the fact that this is
a very serious and grave subject, it
being that the way his friends Sally
and Ralph were upset with what was
happening to Robert Murat, and
taking into account his position as
a Police officer, but that in
Portugal he had no possible way of
helping [them], he felt very
uncomfortable, however, he was never
compromised in the sense of
explaining how the police acted in
these types of situations. He
advances further that he considered
the possibility of getting involved
in this matter, even before he
travelled to Portugal as it
concerned an English child, however
and after becoming aware of the way
that the Portuguese police were
handling the matter, he decided not
to meddle [intervene; interfere] in
--- He explains that whilst still in
Portugal enjoying the holidays, he
contacted his superior in order to
inform him that he was living in the
same area as suspect Robert Murat -
Praia da Luz - and that the press
were also there, given that in his
work as an English Police Officer he
has to preserve its image, and was
promptly advised to not get involved
in the situation.
--- When asked he replied that after
having returned to England he does
not recall having had [established]
any contact with his friends Ralph
and Sally Eveleigh, nor with Mr.
Robert Murat. He states that some of
his family returned again to
Portugal and they had maintained
normal contact with the above
mentioned, but always with a casual
nature and of friendship.
--- Asked if he ever spoke to Robert
Murat about the possibility of
locating mobile phones, he answered
that he recalls a conversation that
he [PA] had with him [RM], he does
not know if the question was
approached by Murat himself, or by a
friend of his by the name of Tuck
Price. The purpose of the
conversation ended up being Murat's
interest in whether the police could
locate his phone, and if this had
occurred would it have proved his
non-involvement in the disappearance
of Madeline McCann. Moreover, he
remembers that the interest relapsed
into the possibility of a location
being detailed, that is, almost the
exact location. He states that he
responded that this was possible,
that it could be located in a very
precise area, but emphasised that it
was the phone that was located and
therefore the user could not be
determined. From what he remembers
this conversation occurred in the
Salsalito boarding house and in the
presence of other people, and
associates this conversation with
--- Moreover, he states that these
matters relating to the location of
mobile phones are an information
that is generally known in England,
given that during trials there is
great emphasis on this evidence, so
this type of information is of
common knowledge. He affirms with
certainty that this conversation
took place after the 14 May, 2007,
i.e. after Robert Murat was a
suspect in the investigations
arising from the disappearance of
--- He adds that the tenor of the
question now before us seemed as a
genuine intention of Robert Murat
wanting to prove his innocence and
not as a way to collect information
on police procedure. As stated this
information is widely known in
England, and he thinks that his
explanation did not break any
confidentiality or professional
--- That he will not have had any
further conversation with Robert
Murat that was so specific,
indicating that he made a great
effort not to do so, since the goal
of every citizen and of the police
in particular, is trying to discover
Madeline McCann's whereabouts, and
as directed by his superior decided
not to do so [not to converse
--- Confronted with the content of
the conversation that he conducted
on the telephone with Robert Murat
on May 15, 2007, between 15H15 and
15H27 as "Statement of Hearing and
Transcript of telephone
interceptions" in the case pages
1683 onwards, he replied that he
recalls this conversation now, but
honestly had the idea of a bar
environment, because this
conversation may actually have
occurred on the phone installed
there. He confirms the content of
the conversation and that it follows
the state of anxiety and anguish in
which his friend Sally Eveleigh
found herself. It follows in the
same sense as above, i.e. as in the
location "to the meter" of a cell
phone. He explains further that at
this time he cannot state exactly if
there were two conversations, in
other words, one personally with
Robert Murat himself and one that
took place on the telephone,
however, does not exclude the
possibility of both having occurred.
--- He wants to make it very clear
[be explicit] that the content of
the conversations he had with Robert
Murat, had the objective of proving
his innocence and he is certain that
the information he provided is well
known, not believing [to be] serious
what he explained to the people,
stating that what he had said could
be explained by any lawyer.
--- He states further that in giving
the testimony to the English Police
he had completely forgotten this
conversation, because he had not
thought it important, taking into
account its content.
--- Asked if hae had spoken with
anyone about the content(s) of
the(se) talk(s), he replied that he
--- When asked he states that he
does not recall any other detail of
interest to this investigation.
No more was said. Read through,
ratified and will sign together with
the interpreter who witnessed the
Signed in the presence of myself who
took the testimony.
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